tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post5877159966850226611..comments2023-05-16T04:39:19.351-07:00Comments on Polyenios: RunBlog: UTMB 2011 - Comparison of US and European elite trail runnerspolyenioshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04825110516440591128noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post-3843273898833670712011-09-01T04:52:13.437-07:002011-09-01T04:52:13.437-07:00To Thomas: Indeed GB has different terrain compare...To Thomas: Indeed GB has different terrain compared to continental Europe. But I must admit that GB runners are quite competitive due to the strong fell running background. I would say that GB trail runners are accustomed to bad weather and harsh terrain, as much (or even more) than any continental runner. Actually British runners (English, Scottish, Irish) and especially those of Cumbria / Lake district area, are doing pretty well!!! Which is one more reason to shift the focus from the "high altitude" advantage mentioned in many occasions.<br /><br />Anyway, the Alps (whole area), Dolomites, Pyreneans, Greek, Slavian and Eastern European mountains are the main contributing areas for ultra trail running in Europe. And these areas provide similar technical background, from the terrain as well as racing point of view (similar culture in events).polyenioshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04825110516440591128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post-32801024943747702012011-09-01T04:29:57.270-07:002011-09-01T04:29:57.270-07:00A good article which tries to be fair and a few go...A good article which tries to be fair and a few good point in here.<br />What does not fit at all though it the generalisation of "European" events or runners etc. <br />I live and train in the UK and there are no races which compare to the UTMB since the highest point is just below 1400 meters.<br /><br />So I am an European and I love running Ultras and I do quite a few but I do not fit your profile of an "European" at all. In fact I'd rather fit into the category of US runners when I follow your classification.<br /><br />Maybe you are referring to races in the Alpine region and you should distinguish accordingly.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12642801966035986262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post-21884739345214504952011-08-31T09:06:37.006-07:002011-08-31T09:06:37.006-07:00To David: An example is http://www.anotherfnrunner...To David: An example is http://www.anotherfnrunner.com/2011/06/alaska-trails-geoff-roes-interview.html this is Geoff describing his running routines and training habits. I can dig for more... I have an interesting archive of issues of UltraRunning Mag.<br /><br />Also, as I said, at a specific day anyone can DNF or perform poorly at a 100miles race. There is no such thing as invincible ultra trail runner. I am talking about stats for elite runners. The comparison between US and European runners is something new, since the exchange of participations started only a couple of years ago. One major problem for this "exchange" of cultures, is that many US races accept a very limited number of runners and usually one has to go through lottery. This is discouraging when someone wants to plan a season and budget for a trip like that.<br /><br />We are in agreement for the professional approach of Salomon team (even though is not under Adidas anymore). I prefer the Krupicka approach to the sport, but everyone has a role in this scene! After all we can judge for ourselves.<br /><br />I assume that you agree with the rest points I present as well. So ... I do not quite understand your attitude towards my insights!polyenioshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04825110516440591128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post-50066804202684212382011-08-31T08:31:46.149-07:002011-08-31T08:31:46.149-07:00I add some points to discussion:
1. UTMB crew is ...I add some points to discussion:<br /><br />1. UTMB crew is only possible at that level you mention with Salomon to europeans; americans, if they don't invest a lot, will not have that crew and support. But you don't need 10 people, with one well prepared is mostly enough.<br /><br />2. Most euro races have self-autonomy rules (or something like that, flexible), except UTMB; yes, "nobody" uses backpack in US, but UTMB is the worst example of autonomy cause you can have all support except pacers (plus mandatory equipment). I have to imagine US runners knew this and train with some weight.<br /><br />3. Kilian doesn't make interval trainings (according to himself) as some others like Heras. One big difference is they do those short races to take speed as you comment, and also practice other sports, like cycling (road, like Kilian or Heras), less running kms to joints.<br /><br />4. @David: Salomon is owned by Amer sports (the same than Suunto, for example); was owned by Adidas, but sold it to have cash to buy Reebok. This was done in 2004.<br /><br />5. I also read that many US runner don't do intervals, but make many many miles per week, much more than euros, for sure; I think it keeps them very slow but allows to run all 100 miles. But if the races starts very fast maybe it could be against them if follow that pace.<br /><br />6. Quads training is so important in Europe, for downhills; I did a race last year, from 3000m to 0 straight, 20km of pure downhill, brutal for legs. Check Nick Clark that suffered a lot in Sierre-Zinal in downhills (and speed climbs), I think is something US runners have to work in.<br /><br />7. This edition was 9th in UTMB, for many americans... 1st, these are many years of advantage, as a road cyclist should learn how to compete in Europe, also US ultrarunners need time to learn the differences if want to be competitive in Europe. The only one who had the time to learn this is Scott Jurek, but I don't know why, he never has a good result in UTMB, and I think he is much better runner than he shows in this particular race.<br /><br />7. There are few professionals in euro scene, but the only 100% dedicated with "unlimited" help is Kilian. This is an advantage, for sure. But others, Heras or Carrera (that could be with Kilian the podium) work 8h as you and me.<br /><br />Interesting post.<br />sser13giohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10480617568440313352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post-26270766174624547962011-08-31T07:49:24.725-07:002011-08-31T07:49:24.725-07:00Such a poorly written article and very subjective....Such a poorly written article and very subjective. Half of your sentences begin with "I read somewhere..." (i.e., "For example I was reading recently that many US mountain ultra runners, do not like interval training!") Really? Where did you read that? What publication? Which blog? Was it written on a cafe napkin? Was it written by a coach? If you believe half the stuff you read or hear, then you're just a lemming. And reading something and then commenting on it does not make you an expert.<br /><br />Also, all of your stats are solely related to 2011. But in what place did Killian finish in last year's WS100? Yup. Third place nearly an hour behind Roes and Krupica. Killian is amazing (I'm not saying he isn't), but just because he's having a great year in 2011 doesn't automatically mean Europeans are better than the Americans. You could have written the same article about the Americans dominating in 2010.<br /><br />The only good point you make is regarding Solomon's sponsorship power, and I agree with you on that 100%. But it has more to do about money than attitude. Solomon is owned by Adidas, the 2nd largest sporting company in the world behind Nike. So yes, Solomon sponsored athletes may have more dollars to support their cause then say Roes and Dakota Jones who are backed by home-grown Montrail. (You also leave out Ryan Sandes from South Africa, who just won Leadville two weekends ago, who is also sponsored by Solomon.)<br /><br />Let's see what 2012 looks like... All of the runners in the world (not just American) will be gunning for Killian.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11006605826871466162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post-42159708512116125392011-08-30T22:37:03.529-07:002011-08-30T22:37:03.529-07:00To Kleran: Regarding the part of your comment for ...To Kleran: Regarding the part of your comment for the US female runners: 48 registered US runners out of which 13 were female athletes. That is an amazing almost 25%!!! The female presence in the starting line of UTMB was less than 8% on average and less than 7% at the finish line. This gives you an indication of the other major difference between US and European trail runners. In Europe the sport is not as popular as in the US for women. This explains in part the difference also in elite female runners. Finally keep in mind that the winner was once more (with a big margin) Lizzy Hawker who is an English woman (a country with basically no big mountains but strong tradition of excellent fell runners) leaving the last years at the area of Zermat Switzerland.<br /><br />Regarding the part about professional approach, this was exactly my point. And as I said, I prefer the US approach since this is compatible with 98% of the field of runners. But everyone has a role in this scene of ultra trail running.polyenioshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04825110516440591128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post-61445979923361308222011-08-30T16:40:31.898-07:002011-08-30T16:40:31.898-07:00I don’t think that its such a question of American...I don’t think that its such a question of Americans dominating Europeans and vice versa… We could just take a look at the facts. From my point of view European elite trail runners train more professionally just like track and field athletes do, thats what my impression is when i see Killian and the rest of the Salomon team supporting their athletes… well going over to an American mentality of ultra running things are just simpler… something like “a door to trail running attitude” which is not wrong from my point of view… Maybe the European runners just take it more seriously. American ultra runners do not lack of talent and endurance, but the UTMB is a tough race, its not only the steep ascent, but i think its the weather that plays a major role as well. As for the Americans pulling out take a step back and see how many LOW key USA runners DNF’ed ? just curious… Many elite athletes just think its not worth it JUST to finish so they pull them selfs out of an ultra, you get that quite a lot. For me its the journey and the persistence for the accomplishment not the standings overall.Agiofwshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08615745591578611829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post-18522830136926046252011-08-30T14:39:39.477-07:002011-08-30T14:39:39.477-07:00There's nothing inherently wrong with American...There's nothing inherently wrong with Americans runners' DNA or their approach to the sport. Note that two of the top three women at UTMB were American! In my opinion, the only meaningful difference between the elite Europeans and the elite Americans is the professional support on the European side (particularly with Salomon). It's next to impossible to train 35 hours a week, year after year, as Kilian Jornet does, if you work full time. Regardless of sport, amateurs defeat professionals only in the rarest of circumstances. Ultrarunning is no different.Kieran McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11606919516884153997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post-33499857432053059572011-08-30T13:00:11.889-07:002011-08-30T13:00:11.889-07:00Λεωνίδα, συμπαρίσταμαι στις θέσεις σου, που είναι ...Λεωνίδα, συμπαρίσταμαι στις θέσεις σου, που είναι και δικές μου: προτιμώ τους αθλητές με τα βαμβακερά σορτσάκια, τα σάντουιτς και το ατιθάσευτο πνεύμα, από τους επαγγελματίες της σιδερένιας πειθαρχίας και των στόχων. Συμφωνώ με τις αιτιάσεις που θέτεις, με μία σημείωση: η Salomon αποκλειστικά έχει δημιουργήσει όλο αυτό το star system, το οποίο μας δημιουργεί αρνητισμό. Όσο για τους Αμερικάνους, ναι, αυτοί αγωνίζονται σε κάτι άλλο στην πατρίδα τους και είναι λογικό να μην τα καταφέρνουν στην ΕυρώπηADVENdUREhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11458967984101296001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-128361423024819488.post-49277527851516865962011-08-30T10:25:27.374-07:002011-08-30T10:25:27.374-07:00Well done article. It gives some valuable insight...Well done article. It gives some valuable insight. Thanks!<br />TimLocal Mind Mediahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06676782580566794924noreply@blogger.com